>> the hack heard round the world, china just crossed line, is the white house about to strike back. >> welcome i am charles payne in for neil cavuto, this is getting bad, china's hack attack is hitting washington, chinese suspected of hacking "new york times" "wall street journal," washington post, and hundreds and thousands of twitter accounts and today reports that

department of energy is getting hit. how china is crossing a real big line, and president obama, should drop everything to address this. ' to start with you jed. we hear about cyber war and cyber warfare, i'm not sure a lot of people take it seriously, can you describe what is at stake? >> every 6 rhet secret that we n our nation, and every computer network that runs virtually everything we do. is i serious stuff, maybe short of an act of war, but china has been going on, for a long time on pr this path, i think about 5 years ago they hacked in army's computer system in pentagon shutting down the e-mail. this is not new, titan rain code name, you know there is two types of government agents in u.s., those who have been hacked

by china, and those who don't know they have been hacked this happens roughly a hundred times a day, attacks coming in from china from all sorts of places mostly guangdong province, this is say military effort. charles: michelle. no react, i rarely hear anything from washington in a political realm we hear china manipulating currency but no one talked about this which seems more dangerous? >> it is a same we don't see this obama administration holding countries accountable. when we belief that this is state sponsored, we're not tracking about useless information, we're talking about our country intellectual property our secrets, you know it has a lot to do with the organization itself and the department, you see study after

study show a lot of people in i-t believe that majority of people in i-t believe that cyber security improvement believes that the policy that the organization imminents this was a -- implements this is not just fault of department of energy but it is carelessness on their hard. charles: gordon we've talked so many times about china, i guess new york time wrote about how rich they were, and i heard about the seiber attack after that -- the cyberattack after, that i am thinking of "the godfather," a horse head, you know, listen, we can reach out and touch you, a warning but a belligerent warning. >> right, china, with regard to "new york times" is trying to change the political discourse in this country, the communist country is out of control, they want to change what people say about them, because they are so insecurity, they believe that will change the discourse inside

of china. charles. you know, jed, you were when defense department, what can be done, what sort of priorities should this model. hold, in particular an area we talk about less spending, and some sanguine that this is not just cyber aspect but overall we won the war, we won all wars, let's break down defense? >> that is ary point, a thing that that is a really key point, this relationship between offensive agressors going against us do, and the abumy of our people to defense against it, it is real simple and relatively simple, i should say, and very inexpensive. comparatively to have a big offensive cyber war capability, this is hugely expensive to defend against the it. we're doing things not maybe

enough, cyber command, has at this point i believe, no offense of doctrine, they can defend but they do not have the ability to strike back, we ought to have a means by which we would strike back immediately, pretty much automatically when someone hacks into a u.s. government agency, they should get something in the e-mail in return. i'm over simplifying it, but, their computers should automatically be attacked, and pretty much taken down. charles: i agree, we should sep send them back a horse head, you know. let's apply maybe back to our real enemies, but back to you gordon. the government in china are they emboldened by your lack of retaliation? i say that, a lot of people talk about a budding war, not a war but arms race with china, and japan, something going on in next 10 years that would draw

america in. but are they emboldened by our lack of self-defense? >> clearly they are, not only this administration but previous one have talked to chinese about the hacking, and chinese say, oh, it is not us. and they are not going to change what they are doing, they have been successful at taking the technology, and intimidating people in the u.s. because of this until we do something, i don't know if it is direct cyberattack for theirs but, until we to something, they are not going to change course. charles: michelle, it seems that the bush administration never paid a price with respect to public relation, how does it change, when do we get a wake-up call? >> i think when individuals stat feeling it affecting them, i think they need to demand there

needs to be a global code of conduct, we need to apply pressure on those countries, especially if it is state sponsored, hey, you need too bring these hackers to justice, we cannot allow this to go on and not say anything just because the chinese say, oh, no it was not us. charles: after 9/11, the conventional wisdom shifted to the ultimate attack would come via the internet, what worse case scenario? >> i think that is ultimate worse case, but we have to have credit here for the people who are working very hard to cut it off, i have several people i know in that part of the world, in our part of cyber world, and you know we are spending a lot of money, a lot of smart guys who are working hard to protect our assets, i think we're in pretty good shape. that is not to say something

really bad could not happen. but we're in a well the better shape than people know. my problem is cutting defense across the board, will cut cyber and a lot it should not cut, and we really need to have this offensive doctrine. with al due respect to michelle. the idea of global code of conduct is nonsense, no one will aboy it we need our shields up in "star trek" terms. >> thank you so much. >> coming up, did you think that democrats would stop asking for more taxes? s revenue push reving up again. >> up next, he was member of white house top jobs council. robert wolf is here.

charles: millions out of work and more asking where the jobs. roberts wolf served on the job's council, he is here right now, thank you for joining us, bob. >> thank you. charles: the jobs council. what happened? listen, you know this cynical side, you know you about the fact of the matter is, it felt like 5 official big meetings, not a lot came out of it, no meeting in the last year, was this just a mirage? >> i disagree, thank you for having me oit was a two yore a year charter, let's talk about what was done, first year was a lot of work together to figgre out ideas ts to the u.s. more of whn , we came up with better ideas with better building, and small, usa initiative. travel and tourism initiative.

the second year was about execution, which we're executing, the proof is working there are wins from this. charles: but, okay okay, now. realistically as a businessman, a lot of things you tick off seems they came from obama wish book. was this council put together to rubber-stamp his ideas? do you bring any fresh ideas to this? >> one, you had individuals on there that certainly you would not say was a of the democratic party it was very bipartisan. of the people it was ceos of public companies, you had things like they wanted to change the permitting aspect to fast ford projects, they had 14 projects they are fast forwarding, the second was business lending, small businesses, one stop shopping. the other thing that fox would like, whole idea of start up

america, and jobs act, jump-start our business start ups, that is getting crowd funding going and getting money ta entrepreneurs. there were some new ideas and wins. charles: what do you make of the idea, speaking of small businesses and entrepreneurs, the rapid decline of entrepreneurship, de despite wht you did in the council. did you feel it is alarming to you, for me, this is a red flag and more and more americans are shin -- shying away from starting a business. >> it is very disappointing, entrepreneurship is what drove the last 20 years of this country, whether you look at apple and google and twitter, but qualaccess is very difficult -- capital access is very difficult. also the regulation, is very difficult, so they had to take down some of those barriers. i think this is an important step. but it is not going to happen

overnight. charles: you were for taxing the rich, you were one of the main proponents tell this to your friends on wall street, for a lot of people, when it started at $250,000, that of is the heart of small business, the ones that have donees bulk of hiring, and you say, listen. we're going to knock the wheels out of the motor important part most important part of our economy. >> i am part of that 1%, i am not touting anything to my friends, we needed to cut $4 trillion to get our fiscal responsibility in order, it is not going to happen with all spending, you need taxes to be parts. charles: i want to say, what is more important, growing the economy? or taxing the economy? do you think that, more

pro-business, pro-growth agendas just offered up even as a olive branch we could get enough businesses and people out there to pay regular taxes but fill that void are talking about. >> i am absolutely for growing the economy, you need fiscal responsibility and growth, you need both, this is not going to happen overnight. right now about 14%, okay? of our money, our money comes from revenues, 25%, spending, the gap is too big, we need to narrow down, where it was 3%, you need revenues up, you need spending down, both have to happen together. charles: it does not feel like, that the president got a huge victory, a big time tax hike. very little spending cut. and there is dropping hints today or during super bowl, -- a lot of times we get these things

and hear about big projects that go after the rich. but we also end up going after the not so rich, because the payroll tax hike i think will be devastating, so far the tea leaves are not reading so well for that but you can have both? if you could get to the president on one-on-one, can you say, listen, how can we grow the economy first? like planning a -- planting a seed and letting it sprowd. >> we have to do both. i like the idea of spending cuts about 2.5 to 1 verse revenues, that is a plan that the president put on the table. but nene, boehner came out with his proposal, that got no vote, that is one. the second part is we should talk about growth. i believe infrastructure is the key to this country's growth. it the greatist multiplier of

gdp growth. for every dollar 6, and engineers here, if you are infrastructure d-rating there are things to do that are always bipartisan in nature. charles: yet the president, and the real infamous clip, that is shown quite often, says that a lot of shovel-ready jobs were not around, and they often turn out to be temporary projects? where is the longevity, if we had 5 newbridges connecting new jersey to manhattan, beyond that building where would jobs manifest from? >> i do not view infrastructure as just highways and business, it is private public partisan, partnership, like when i think of infrastructure, i think much more broader, than what we think of infrastructure, with pot holes. charles: should the government be in the business of trying to

invent things, discover things? the president speaks a lot, it sounds more and more like you know, okay, nasa, you know we have tang and a microwave, let's go on, let the government get involved. don't you think that private sector is involved deep enough? don't you think that energy, a trillion dollar industry, whoever can solve the next puzzle of what replaces fossil fuel, they will be a gazillion aiair. >> i think that private sector runs this country, it is the growth engine. i think that president believes that as well, but that does not mean there is no role for government, we have to find the right balance, in this recession, we have been a bit off balance. charles: but uokay you are right, but have we been off

balance because government hassle booed its way into area -- government has elbowed its way into areas where it should the nob. >> no. charles: we can debate the recovery. >> what you say government has been too involved, let's take hurricane sandy and people rah, you don't thinpeoplefema, youdot should have been involved. charles: i am saying i think that states should have handled it, i am talking about federal government saying we're going to lend to the money where we're only ones that can lend money in housing industry, and only ones that can lend money to student loans, they are ticking time bombs. >> i am with you, we need private sector into housing mark fret a lending perspective, and i am sure that government would like to get the hell out of that as well. okay, explain to me, what you think best transition is from

92% motor gang% mortgage backedy government to the private sector. charles: it is tough, which is why this is say cautionary tale. but, what do you say what talk to the president, is there anything that you think he is doing wrong, that you would like him to change. >> right now we live in a polarizing world, and i we think we need both sides coming to the table, it starts with the president, i think that 4. from trillion dollar deal he put on table was a smart deal for the nation. charles: i year ago, in hindsight -- longer term deal. law talk about your operation, 32 advisors, you have always been a big wig, and now, you had a go the coop, you know new blood coming in.

>> imexcited, it is humbling with a start up. i'm making calls every day to clients and hiring people. we're looking forward to be an advisory firm on what i believe are experts fields, one we announced was economic intelligence and intersection between the economy and public policy, run by austin gullsby. we'll make a bunch of announcement next week. hopefully get private sector back to the table. charles: we need you. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. >> thank you so much. charles: democrats getting a dream bill, now they dare to dream more, that is right the tax hike that is turning into a real nightmare. the boys use capital one venture miles for their annual football trip.

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charles: democrats are really asking for more after getting republicans to agree to front in tax hikes for every dollar in cuts, saying we need more revenue. the ongoing talks about taxes but nobody is mentioning a thick about cuts, brad. >> you know the democrats are addicted to spending it is a drug, the american people said enough is enough, we've seen the disastrous effects of first stimulus, $800 billion, president mimicked his rhetoric, we're tires of spending, the g.o.p. the stick to their guns, we're no longer going to spend, we have a spinning problem. charles: malia, after the election you say that american people say the opposite? >> absolutely, i'm not sure who

the we is on the i think that g.o.p. is seeing they can no longer be that we. at the end of the day obama ran on this,41 to every dollar, i am not getting into that statue threw out but the at the end of the day, democrats won, and president won, he ran on this platform, 7 million americans agree more with this platform than did with romney. charles: you know, guy, again, we could debate the numbers but the fact is, i think that american public actually thought there would be more balance according to almost every poll out there, but getting back to what brad said earlier, and republicans gathering it feels they are in disarray, this is one of the reason that president has felt show bold.

>> he has been feasting on g.o.p. disarray, but i have to crack up at malia's use of word austerity. we're not close to balancing the budget, there is zero chance that any degree of tax increase on so-called rich could even approach fixing that. if you look at house republican budget, they put out last two years, no democratic budget for 4 years, republican budget looked to curb the rate of growth of spending it still increasing spending but not as much, that is austerity in the new speak we're hearing from the left, that is it bears no relation to reality this is the problem we get sucked into a vortex of nonsense, we're in deep trouble. >> the problem is that whether you believe your reality that you live in we're we believe our

that we live in, is we're not coming together to find common ground, i'm not saying there should not be cuts, i know that you know, that i believe that there should be cuts in defense spending, we spend a lot of money on defense. >> that is one thing that democrats like cutting. >> so, then let's start there. you don't like over spending either, let's talk anywhere we come together on this. we have to figure out how we support working americans, what i don't hear from the republicans is their solution, i hear -- >> here is the solution,. charles: woe. >> so we get back in charge then we'll get out of this crisis. charles: brad, let me bring you back in i think one ironies, one ring that malia is talking about with defense spending that notion that perhaps republicans will not get in the way of sequestering as scared heck out of democrats and the white house, maybe they don't like even cutting defense. >> we will come to the table in

good faith, but, look. reality is, yeah, obama won, but we have a divided government. the american people wanted republican to stay in control of the house, it takes three to strongo in washington, -- tango in washington uthe white house, house and senate, it is not obama's way or the highway, that is the problem with democrats, you give them an inch, they take a yard, i will tell you matter of factory, we're not going to agree to more spending, it rein gone is not going to happen, you have to get your act together, have you not been able to produce a budget, not able to bridge down the deficit as you promised as president promises in his first term this run away spending that idea that you just soak the rich there ain't enough rich to soak, let's show a little bit of the report and reduce the cost of size of

government. charles: politicallia, i am familiar with your thoughts and words in the past there is a large segment of democratic parties or voters who are not looking at this from a phys call point ofiscalpoint of view, buta justice for the ranges of wester year -- wrongs of yesteryear. >> i don't know what you mean. charles: redistribution of wealth, excessive taxation, deon de-- demonizing businesses. >> this is the evolution of a country, every 4 years we get a chance to choose a different president, and this time we decided not to. you know, i really don't think that there is -- lou: that is not an economy argument. >> i really, -- that was not his question. charles: so, guy -- >> it was about politics, to

respond, i think that dc is too barpartisan, i am not in dc thee is a reason that i lift dc . charles: i want to go to you last, guy, where do we go. >> here? the president feels like he is embold epedemboldened with the s sails. >> they are already asking for more taxes, he said that in a couple interviews over the weekend, president got his tax win uhe taxed those millionaires he campaigned on. that book is now closed. but what are we doing about our entitlements, that is by far the biggest drivers of our debt, that is a question he has not answers, and senate did not answer, and today president missed yet their budget deadline, his fourth and his 5 years in office, unprecedented. charles: i have tell you, to to powerpoint entitlements will not

be addressed over the next 4 years, thank you so much. >> thank you, charles. charles: let's call it a storm after the storm, how sandy have. s say that 51 billion bucks meant to help is only hurting. hello! how sharp is your business security? can it help protect your people and property, while keeping out threats to your operations? it's not working! yes it is. welcome to tyco integrated security. with world-class monitoring centers and thousands of qualified technicians. we've got a personal passion to help your business run safer, smarter, and sharper. we are tyco integrated security. and we are sharper.

charles: 400 million taxpayer bucks to force sandy victims to move, governor cuomo looking to use a chunk of that sandy aid package to buy and demolish badly damaged homes. this is the government forcing sandy victims to leave their homes instead of getting help to fix them, scott, in studio thank you. >> you had are you. charles: before we go into the details. how are you doing? >> trying to hold up, you know it is rough you know, getting still same story from insurance companies, and you know politicians. >> when you heard 51 billion, you had to feel, golly, that is it it is here, you know we could see a light at the end of the tunnel? >> yeah, but when. the question is when. you know that is what we keep doing, waiting, we've waited

this long, i have a go in rescue that they have been helping. they are just, they give me news last week they will sheetrock my house, and insulate it. but anything else it has been going slow. charles: you, your brother, you are doing so money things for the community, yet you hear that the com cuomo take a lot of mono tear people's homes down, these people were thinking they would get money to rebuild. >> charles, listen. i am a big supporter of governor cuomo fighting for new yorkers, not a big supporter of government going out there trying to take people's homes while we have people in the position where they need help, they need safety, they need their quality of life restored. and to me, like scott said, me and my brother have been running a volunteer center for a couple months now, giving just egg lar

recession -- regular citizens, volunteer help, 90% of the people i talk to, are telling the government, keep your hands off our land, we don't want you buying our houses, telling us how much our house is worth, we would you to give us money, fix it up, give us insulation, and put some heat olet us live safely, the government's responsibility is their safety not buying the houses. we still have hundreds of people in staten island, work work with no power, no insulation, living in toxic waterlogged houses, begging the government to please help, we're not getting it. charles: scott, have you been the face of it for a long time, every knows you and has seen you on television by now, you were potted out as something, --

trotted out, not a prop but, at this stage you have to feel what john is saying, you know that pain personally. >> right, i am speaking on behalf of the people, on staten high loon. charles: before they were everything is okay. >> it has been lies. i melt with the president, he said we'll cut the red tape, the red tape has not been cut, i met with andrew cuomo, he said things will be done, they have not been done, they have not walked in our neighborhoods, they have not been there they justment t want to do the quick, we got a notice of the change in sea level, i know that i might have to raise my house 10 feet, that is $10,000 per foot you

raise. i called my insurance company, today, and they tell me, you might be qualified for 30,000 but you need a letter from your politician that says youer forced to raise your house, this is this there are way that governor and city will force people, because, if i have to raise my house 10 fight that dollars 100,000. >> what if said, tomorrow offered you a check for it, would you take it? >> i built this house, i built it , i am rebuilding it, i have my brothers, my nieces andny nephews, every day, or every weekend, building uputting screws in the floor, new beams, we have been doing the work, you know it is not a house, this is a part of a joy and pride they help me rebuild this it will be my home, with my wife and family, i'm not selling, my neighbors are not selling, they

might as well get that out of their mind, you know, they will sell and build big condo min condo miniums there and sell them for million, and they will get their money back, they made their money, they want the property, because it is water front property. that is the main goal of this government. >> charlie, just think, when you hear passion and emotion from people like scott, we need the governor to come to the table and embrace solutions like state senator andrew who proposed a plan where homeowners get immediate fronts to -- grants to repair and restore the home, later on government come back and decide when houses need to be demolished, but for now most people that i have met, like scott, want to stay in the house, and get back to normal quality of life, i wish that governor and powers that be

would will embrace that and help the people. charles: that is an amazing idea, scott, i told you, not long ago, we were not going to forget about ando o you and we'e not, our hearts to and you your family and everyone on staten island. >> we appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: neither show snow, rain or heat, something stops u.s. postal service, and apparently, neither do red lights. >> do you know why i stopped y you?

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for us, should they go by different rules? u.s. postal service refuse its pay $700 in traffic fines saying it is immune from local traffic laws, to the judge, judge napolitano, are government workers beyond the rules of the road? >> it depends on who you ask, it you ask the post office they claim to be, butter time charles, a -- but every time a court has looked into whether employees of federal government are required to comply with safe traffic regulations as the rest of us, every time, they have sided with they are requireed to comply. we're not talking about finding federal government, we're talking about fining human beings to drove at postal truck at a high rate of speed through a school zone, they are required to aboy the law. charlesa-- to obey the law.

charles: would there be retribution for person that committed the infraction? >> well postal service cannot pay the ticket. charles: they can't? >> not lawfully, you cannot be reimbursed for a criminal fine, that is a low level criminal fine, an employer condition reimburse, lawful le lawfully ae town cannot tax the postal service, they cannot extract crash from the service but they can punish much is of the postal service -- employees of the post at service who break the law, i am not a fan of traffic cameras, i condemn them. they are a scam. but if this is a legitimate, you cannot speed zone, and this

vehicle did speed this driver of the vehicle, is subject to the same rules as everyone else. supreme court of new jersey looked at this, in the case of an fbi agent, speeding up the turnpike he was late to go to court, his defense was, i work for the federal government, and i had to be in the courtroom, and tomorrow judgfederal judge o wait for me, so what, other people are late too, they don't get to speed. so, the supreme court of new jersey ruled, he is subject to the same regulations as everyone else, if the fbi is, the postman is. charles: you have to say there is a feeling that you know i do work for the government. i am ir -- immune, and i will nt pay a penalty.

i don't know that drivers are paying for it. >> in every state of the union it is against public policy for you to be reimbursed for your criminal violation. it is not a puppish am. we're not punishing ups or the postal service, you are punishing the driver as individuals. if people could be immunized from consequences of breaking the law there would be no incentive to comply with it. charles: beyond legal aspect, do you think that is over afternooning feeling went federal government. >> a feeling within a lot of governments, government has written laws that make it difficult to sue the government, slip and fall in a supermarket you sue them. slip and fall in post office, it will be 10 years before the case is resolved. by then you may give up the ghost. >> you can't beat city hall or

the white house. >> you really want to go there? charles: i don't. >> when the postman speeds he gets a ticket like everyone else. >> judge andrew napolitano thank you. >> government's appetite for making decisions for you is growing, their late of food push might leave you feeling sick.

>> with more research and incentives we could break our depend on oil fuels. charles: more than certain billion picks spent trying to make that happen, but obama

administration admitting that meeting the goala not likely, but white house pushing hard target rid of junk food in schools. washington should just quit making. ty promises and stop -- empty promises and stop trying to force their agenda down our throat. >> i think that republicans have been trying to solve their youth product, take ads out on something like nickelodeon, saying the democrats are coming after our candy. on a more serious note, we're all in favor of healthier foods, in kids in particular, there is an obesity problem, a goal we can share, but this is the pervue of parents, and local school districts, i am not a fan

of the top down federal decrees, which is not to say, if i am a local school board, and there was an option for healthier foods coming up, i might vote for it but i do not like this big, bad nanny state government sticking its nose in every cafeteria. charles: malia? >> i do agree a majority. i think what is unfortunate like, what is the trigger that should bring a federal government in to solve a problem? we know that -- >> what problem? >> the fact that one in four children have diabetes, we're the most obese country, they will end up -- we'll end up paying for it because of health problems, i'm not sure, i agree -- i think we all agree we have a health problem. there is now commercials going

out that like make testing your blood cool, it is quite scary. i'm not sure when the -- when any of you that are republicans or however the right would see it being useful for government to step in and try to help save children who don't really have a say in -- >> is that the argument, left might have success in saying this the cost taxpayers a lot of money, so why not nip it in the bud? >> government should do for people what they can't do for themes, the people are capable of handling this issue, maybe mayor bloomberg is looking to become a food czar, we're a little light on czars now, look at new york, bottom line, this should be in bali wick of parents and local school boards, government should help educate so people can make an intelligent decision, and healthcare is a huge issue, but this is the right issue, to

educate the people to make their own decisions, but, the government length lating i legit going to solve the problem it will backfire. charles: if the government were to get involved, would it be a good place to start with food stamps and welfare recipients to put limits on what they can buy, since they are using taxpayer money. >> i'm not sure what welfare has to do with feeding children in school. this is quite difficult, if you look at map of food deserts, you can -- >> that is a cop-out. that is a cop-out, let me tell you, -- >> it is not a cop-out. charles: if you open a salad stastand -- no one goes there. >> you can't for get about that, you are trying to take fact that you want to look at.

charles: i'm trying to have a legitimate conversation, i. >> i'm trying to have this this conversation with you. charles: i'm telling that you is 1000% junk, that is bunch, phony, that is not true, people go to super markets, they walk past the apples and buy fritos and doritos for children, they happen in real life. >> no, i know what happens in real life, i work in the communities. i can tell you about the communities, right is, that they do want to feed their families, and i sure, a majority of parents, that are sending their kids to public school, actually don't take and should take it personal, this idea you think that this school should not have a say in what they should be eating, it is a fact that you would reject there, seems like a foolish notion. charles: guy, we don't have time

to get back to you, this is not a food desert issue or a look of opportunity issue, if the government was going to get involved, i find it interesting they would not get involved with regulating what wite, people that get majority of their money to buy food from taxpayer, we don't have time, a great discussion, i would love to have it again, but we're out of time, thank you. biel talk to you later. charles: businesses from all sizes use the louts out to keep you their lights on. next.

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